Editing Talk:Koch map

Whoaaaaaaaaaaa how have I never seen this before!!!?!?!?!!!!!!1111 <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 11:20, 5 December 2009 (CST)
:I know, right! It's on display in the Historical Society's library, I did a Google search for the illustrator and found a digitized version straightaway. The numbers are a little blurry, but still! <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif; color:#cccccc;">&mdash;&nbsp;'''''[[User:Admin|admin]]'''''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'''''[[User_talk:Admin|talk]]'''''&nbsp;</span> 11:30, 5 December 2009 (CST)

==Numbers==
Speaking of the blurry numbers, I'm going to need help finding some of these. Just a few examples: I'm pretty sure the big cylindrical tower on Palafox north of Lee Square was a water tower, i.e. #7 Water Works Stand Pipe, even though it looks like #5. Not sure what the building on Guillemard and DeSoto is... I'd guess either the Water Works Pumping Station (since that's where the later Water Works Building was built) or the Gas Works. But the one on Tarragona between Cervantes & Strong could be either one of those too. Any insight? <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif; color:#cccccc;">&mdash;&nbsp;'''''[[User:Admin|admin]]'''''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'''''[[User_talk:Admin|talk]]'''''&nbsp;</span> 11:38, 6 December 2009 (CST)
:Yeah, that's definitely the Water Works Stand Pipe at Palafox and Cervantes. I am having trouble seeing some of these numbers. Is there a number around the structure at Guillemard and de Soto? I can't see one. I'd guess your guess is probably right though. The structure you're talking about on Tarragona between Cervantes and Strong is the little teeny thing on the NE corner of Cervantes and Tarragona? I'm not sure. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 12:05, 6 December 2009 (CST)
::Re: Guillemard & DeSoto, it looks like there's a number on the roof, resembles a 9, but don't think the Public School had a smokestack. Re: Tarragona & Cervantes, I think it's that whole complex, with the number 5 on the roof. The thing on the corner looks like some of cynlindrical wireframe structures I saw in an [http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rls=en&um=1&q=%22gas+works%22&sa=N&start=54&ndsp=18 image search for "gas works"].
:::1903 fire map confirms gas works at the Tarragona & Cervantes location. <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif; color:#cccccc;">&mdash;&nbsp;'''''[[User:Admin|admin]]'''''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'''''[[User_talk:Admin|talk]]'''''&nbsp;</span> 15:30, 6 December 2009 (CST)

<nowiki>#</nowiki>32 is mislabelled as the "I. M. Hilliard" carriage factory, when it is in fact the [[J. M. Hilliard Carriage Company]]. Our article for that places it at 30 East Garden which would place it on the north side of Garden between Palafox and Brue, but I can't see any numbers on that area of the map. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 12:12, 6 December 2009 (CST)
:Maybe it's the building on the south side of Garden, with the smoke stack in rear? <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif; color:#cccccc;">&mdash;&nbsp;'''''[[User:Admin|admin]]'''''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'''''[[User_talk:Admin|talk]]'''''&nbsp;</span> 13:11, 6 December 2009 (CST)
::Maybe. The source of the 30 East Garden Street address is the ad depicted on our [[J. M. Hilliard Carriage Company]] article. The even-numbered address indicates a building on the north side of Garden. For instance, Reynalds Music House [http://www.reynaldsmusichouse.com/] is 36 East Garden. 30 East Garden would be in the middle of the Jefferson Street extension. Of course, that ad with that address is from 1897, it's possible it moved between 1896 and 1897 but probably not. Alternately, it's possible that the 30 East Garden address from the ad was simply an office and the actual factory was elsewhere. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 13:19, 6 December 2009 (CST)
:::[[Image:Koch map-possible32-highlighted.png|thumb|right|Possible #32?]]OK. I believe you can make out a FAINT "32" on a building on the north side of Garden in that block. See the image at right. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 14:39, 6 December 2009 (CST)
::::Agreed. Confirmed by 1892 fire map. <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif; color:#cccccc;">&mdash;&nbsp;'''''[[User:Admin|admin]]'''''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'''''[[User_talk:Admin|talk]]'''''&nbsp;</span> 15:27, 6 December 2009 (CST)

<nowiki>#</nowiki>57 is marked on Main Street about an inch to the right of #58. It refers to the structure on the NE corner of Main and de Villiers. I've seen the hospital marked in that position on a Sanborn map. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 12:16, 6 December 2009 (CST)
:Good eye, thanks! <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif; color:#cccccc;">&mdash;&nbsp;'''''[[User:Admin|admin]]'''''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'''''[[User_talk:Admin|talk]]'''''&nbsp;</span> 13:11, 6 December 2009 (CST)

I think #46 may be the wharf at the foot of [[Commendencia Street ]]. I think #70 may be there also, it's very hard to make out. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 12:21, 6 December 2009 (CST)
:I had thought that was #45, thinking it was the [[L&N Marine Terminal Building]], but the article says that building wasn't built for another 8 years. Do you see another 45? <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif; color:#cccccc;">&mdash;&nbsp;'''''[[User:Admin|admin]]'''''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'''''[[User_talk:Admin|talk]]'''''&nbsp;</span> 13:11, 6 December 2009 (CST)
::I think it's 46, but no, I can't find another 45 offhand. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 14:28, 6 December 2009 (CST)
:::[[Image:Koch map-44and45-highlighted.png|thumb|right|44 and 45?]]Strike that, I believe I've found 44 and 45. See image at right. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 14:34, 6 December 2009 (CST)
::::I still think you were right about 46 being on the wharf. The terminal company owned the streetcars, and those could be streetcar tracks by the building on Main. Anyway, that definitely looks like "45" on the roof. Not positive the other one is 44, but maybe. Do we have any other info on the location of city hall in the 1890s? <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif; color:#cccccc;">&mdash;&nbsp;'''''[[User:Admin|admin]]'''''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'''''[[User_talk:Admin|talk]]'''''&nbsp;</span> 15:08, 6 December 2009 (CST)
:::::OK this is weird. The 1903 Sanborn map indicates that City Hall is housed in a building on the SW corner of Zaragoza and Jefferson, immediately south of [[17 East Zaragoza Street]], which the Sanborn map labels as a cigar factory ... HOWEVER, the 1897 Sanborn map identifies 17 East Zaragoza as occupied by the Germania fire company and labels the building to the south as "City Court, Police & Jail." The building which I identified as a possible #44 on the image to the right is just labelled "Cigar Fac." in the 1897 Sanborn map. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 15:52, 6 December 2009 (CST)
::::::I just noticed that too. Our info shows City Hall was in that 405 South Jefferson Street building south of the Germania bldg from 1900-1908, which is consistent with the fire maps. But now that I look at the Koch map again, there does seem to be a faint "44" on that building, which means maybe city hall was moved there before 1900? <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif; color:#cccccc;">&mdash;&nbsp;'''''[[User:Admin|admin]]'''''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'''''[[User_talk:Admin|talk]]'''''&nbsp;</span> 16:05, 6 December 2009 (CST)
:::::::Maybe, I can't find any "City Hall" on the 1897 Sanborn map. Hey, just out of curiosity, the item you are identifying as #44½, where is that on the Koch map? <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 16:09, 6 December 2009 (CST)
:::::::Haha, just realized that ''is'' the cigar factory (44½) on Main. What I took as "44½" must be dormer windows on the old convent building. <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif; color:#cccccc;">&mdash;&nbsp;'''''[[User:Admin|admin]]'''''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'''''[[User_talk:Admin|talk]]'''''&nbsp;</span> 16:16, 6 December 2009 (CST)
::::::::OK, cool, that's what I was thinking. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 16:24, 6 December 2009 (CST)

Can't find the #20 item, Cary & Co. Coal Yards. The 1893 city directory lists Cary & Co. at 120 E Government but that is almost certainly just their office. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 16:53, 6 December 2009 (CST)
:Found it via the fire maps. It's behind the freight depot, fronting Tarragona. <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif; color:#cccccc;">&mdash;&nbsp;'''''[[User:Admin|admin]]'''''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'''''[[User_talk:Admin|talk]]'''''&nbsp;</span> 16:58, 6 December 2009 (CST)
::Haha, I think it's funny when we do the exact same thing at the exact same time. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 17:01, 6 December 2009 (CST)

Is #2 the little building on the L&N eastern (Muskogee) Wharf? <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif; color:#cccccc;">&mdash;&nbsp;'''''[[User:Admin|admin]]'''''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'''''[[User_talk:Admin|talk]]'''''&nbsp;</span> 17:03, 6 December 2009 (CST)
:Methinks yes. I figured it would be on a wharf, because the Gulf Transit Co. was an export company controlled by L&N, but I couldn't find it. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 17:20, 6 December 2009 (CST)

==Out of order==
Any particular reason some of the numbers are out of order, i.e. 43 is followed by 52? <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 14:28, 6 December 2009 (CST)
:I just transcribed as they were on the map. Same for "I. M. Hilliard", "cemetry", etc. <span style="font-family:Georgia, serif; color:#cccccc;">&mdash;&nbsp;'''''[[User:Admin|admin]]'''''&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;'''''[[User_talk:Admin|talk]]'''''&nbsp;</span> 14:50, 6 December 2009 (CST)
::Oh, I see, thanks. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; vertical-align:5%; font-family: Georgia,serif; color:#cccccc;">—&nbsp;'''[[User:Dscosson|dscosson]]''' • '''[[User talk:Dcosson|talk]]'''&nbsp;</span> 14:58, 6 December 2009 (CST)